I have noticed traffic coming to my blog from this link , where a blogger states that;-
If you have the stomach for it, type “misandry” into Google, and take a gander at what you’re rewarded with. The internet is chock full of self-righteous misogynists who think us “female supremacists” just need to “have some sense fucked into us” (because nothing inspires faith in your concept that sex equality already exists like your reinforcement of rape culture, and the idea that us little ladies just need a good deep dicking to set us straight).
A fine example of a straw man argument if ever I saw one! Without references, the blogger states that supporters of mens rights also advocate rape. The blogger fails to show how she reached this argument, and this ‘gap’ in reasoning is formally known as a non sequitur . After this the blogger continues in fine style;-
Yes, men are the victims of domestic violence, and yes, men get raped. As acknowledged at the start of my last post, ten percent of rape victims are male. But you know what that leaves? 90 percent who are female. Should that ten percent get ignored, should their crimes not be prosecuted? Of course not. But focusing on so few while so many suffer is not going to in any way affect the long-term problem.
Let’s imagine for a moment that the blogger is using verifiable sources for this statistic (she does not). The blogger argues that most victims are female, and also that this fact would legitimise a gynocentric focus with regard to victim support. However, this is an appeal to popularity – should we likewise ignore hunger in a small Third World country in order to buy extra pizza for the larger population at home? The blogger continues.
How many television shows feature a conventionally unattractive, rude, obese women with her Chippendale-double husband? It’s not an insult to men that they’re told they can be as slovenly, ill-mannered, and lazy as they wish and still expect a beautiful, capable wife. It’s a statement on how we, as women, should have low standards because we should be grateful for any and all male attention that is granted to us.
However, this argument confuses a sequence of events . Advertisers tailor their products to appeal to a target audience, and will soon change if that audience does not enjoy that product. The Stupid Dad advertising phenomenon is most often designed to appeal to an audience who buy domestic products, and it is a recognised fact that most homemakers are still female . Therefore, this phenomenon is dictated by females, rather than dictated to them.
So, what can men do when confronted by this kind of faulty reasoning? It might be tempting to assail bloggers such as the one above, but I would suggest that it is better to become acquainted with some knowledge of logical fallacies . This would equip you to disassemble arguments such as the ones above, in the same way that I have.
After all.. feminists are stupid. Throw logic at them!
Feminism purports to concern itself only with equality – but in reality propagates mistrust, tension and hatred between the sexes.
9 comments
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July 14, 2011 at 8:34 pm
bunnika
While I greatly appreciate the attention, I need to point out one thing:
http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-victims
http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2009/10/rape-culture-101.html
I linked directly to rape statistics, and to a description of the rape culture referred to in my opening statement (rape culture being the fashion in which tacit support is given to rapists by those who would never give explicit support). I’m hardly going to engage you in a debate on this, but I take issue with the false representation of my writing.
July 14, 2011 at 8:37 pm
Exposing Feminism
If you find fault with my representation of your writing, you may always post a refutation here. However, you are already off to a bad start – I don’t see that your statistics prove any correlation between mens rights advocacy and rape. E.F.
July 16, 2011 at 12:57 am
Christian J.
“I’m hardly going to engage you in a debate on this, but I take issue with the false representation of my writing.”
This is the standard response from lying, inept feminists who always run and hide whenever they are confronted with the truth or criticism. Give them an opportunity to respond and all you get is the standard “it wasn’t me who wrote that” or the one I like the most is “you’re wrong and I am right” and quickly disolves into the ether for the cowards they really are..
July 18, 2011 at 5:01 am
bunnika
Quite the contrary; I stand by everything I wrote, which is why I felt the need to clarify a mistake in this representation. Everything addressed in this post was already covered in my original blog entry, so elaboration is unnecessary. But, if it will make you feel better:
“http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-victims
http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2009/10/rape-culture-101.html
I linked directly to rape statistics, and to a description of the rape culture referred to in my opening statement (rape culture being the fashion in which tacit support is given to rapists by those who would never give explicit support).” (Quoting myself here, since you seem to have missed it.)
“However, this is an appeal to popularity – should we likewise ignore hunger in a small Third World country in order to buy extra pizza for the larger population at home?”
To rephrase: “The blogger argues that we should favor care of the large group of oppressed people over the small group of unoppressed people. Should we therefore favor the large group of unoppressed people over the small group of oppressed people?” The attention should be on those facing oppression, regardless of their numerical value. In this instance, women make up the numerical majority BECAUSE of the oppression; if we were not oppressed, numbers would likely even out. I would not order you to feed the starving third-world people if you yourself were starving just as much. (This might just be my favorite logical fallacy in this whole post.)
To the entire paragraph on advertising, even accepting all of your assumptions, makes no statement against misogyny whatsoever: http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2007/10/20/internalized-sexism/
Also, the fact that most homemakers are female is itself a representation of misogyny, based on the biological essentialist argument that women are natural caregivers. Were we not raised in a society that dictates gender guidelines by sex, more men would be homemakers, and more women breadwinners.
Hope that cleared things up. If not, re-read my original post a few times. I’ve made my point clearly (and repeatedly), and have no interest in screaming at brick walls. Someone is not “stupid,” “inept,” or “lying” simply because they disagree with you; we’re not in grade school, gentlemen, let’s stop acting like it.
July 18, 2011 at 6:26 pm
Exposing Feminism
Thank you for your reply, Bunnika.
However, I still find some points of your argument puzzling.
* Can you show how your rape statistics are collected, or verified?
(I draw your attention to the following excerpt from this site:)
* Can you show how it is that you consider rape to be linked to advocacy for men’s rights?
* Can you describe why it is that you think that a campaign against sexual violence should be regarded as a gender issue?
* Can you show how an argument that “most homemakers are women” is an expression of sexism, rather than an statement of fact?
Thanks again for posting. E.F.
July 18, 2011 at 7:46 am
John Rambo
BOYCOTT AMERICAN WOMEN
Why American men should boycott American women
http://boycottamericanwomen.blogspot.com
I am an American man, and I have decided to boycott American women. In a nutshell, American women are the most likely to cheat on you, to divorce you, to get fat, to steal half of your money in the divorce courts, don’t know how to cook or clean, don’t want to have children, etc. Therefore, what intelligent man would want to get involved with American women?
American women are generally immature, selfish, extremely arrogant and self-centered, mentally unstable, irresponsible, and highly unchaste. The behavior of most American women is utterly disgusting, to say the least.
This blog is my attempt to explain why I feel American women are inferior to foreign women (non-American women), and why American men should boycott American women, and date/marry only foreign (non-American) women.
BOYCOTT AMERICAN WOMEN!
Are you a man who is interested in marrying indian women? Please visit Indian-Wife.com, India’s 1st International Marriage Site:
http://www.indian-wife.com
July 18, 2011 at 7:04 pm
bunnika
(WordPress doesn’t seem to want comments to stack at this point; I really don’t like their blog engine much at all.)
RAINN is not a feminist organization. The statistics quotes on their page come directly from studies conducted primarily by the US government:
National Institute of Justice & Centers for Disease Control & Prevention. Prevalence, Incidence and Consequences of Violence Against Women Survey. 1998.
U.S. Department of Justice. 2003 National Crime Victimization Survey. 2003.
U.S. Department of Justice. 2004 National Crime Victimization Survey. 2004.
1998 Commonwealth Fund Survey of the Health of Adolescent Girls. 1998.
U.S. Department of Health & Human Services, Administration for Children and Families. 1995 Child Maltreatment Survey. 1995.
U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics. 2000 Sexual Assault of Young Children as Reported to Law Enforcement. 2000.
World Health Organization. 2002.
U.S. Department of Justice. 2005 National Crime Victimization Survey. 2005.
The site you link to is an anti-feminist site. Please note that in discussing statistics, I only quote impartial sources. I suggest the following book, which has excellent statistical evidence, as well as pertinent discussion to the culture of rape:
I’ve actually not been the one to bring up “men’s rights” or their advocacy at all; that was your part. You were linked as an example in my blog not because of any advocacy for equality, but because you express hateful views in this blog, such as this, from this very entry:
“feminists are stupid. Throw logic at them!”
Your tagline caught my attention foremost: “Feminism purports to concern itself only with equality – but in reality propagates mistrust, tension and hatred between the sexes.” Or the mere banner, “Feminism is man-hate.” It’s not true, and shows that you don’t understand what feminism really is. I don’t hate men; I don’t even hate my rapist. I hate what he did to me, and I hate that such acts of violence exist to express control over women (rape is a crime of violence, a hate crime; it is about domination, not sexual pleasure). I hate the culture that didn’t allow me to bring him to justice. I hate the cultural demand that if I want to work outside the home, I must still be the sole caregiver to my child, and maintain all of the cooking and cleaning at home, simply because that’s a woman’s “duty,” and a male will not be frowned at for not picking up the slack. I hate that it is acceptable to slut-shame women for behavior that is lauded in men. I hate that men (the male-dominated political world) are allowed to dictate laws that prevent me from exercising bodily autonomy. I hate a lot of things about the sex imbalance in this world, but I do not hate men. There are men who I dearly love, and who I would not want to live my life without. I am the staunchest feminist you will likely ever meet, but I am not this picture you have painted in your mind of what a feminist is. It’s a faulty image, and one that, by and large, feminists do not embody. It’s like writing off every white person because of the KKK; that is not an adequate representation of the group as a whole.
Regarding rape culture, independent of the MRA aspect, as I’ve mentioned that’s not my avenue of exploration, and I don’t consider it all that relevant: I really do wish you’d read that Shakesville post. As mentioned, rape culture is the social structure in which those who do not actively support rape support it passively. (This is something done largely by BOTH sexes, another reason it’s not applicable to an MRA analysis.) It is the culture that tells a rape victim she is at fault is she was intoxicated, dressed provocatively, or flirted with her assailant. It is the culture in which people would sooner call the victim a slut than her attacker a rapist. It is the culture that assumes any woman accusing a man of rape is lying, when false rape accusations are no more common than other false crime reports (and someone saying, “Person X just stabbed me,” is not asked if they did anything, said anything, dressed a certain way that implied to their attacker that they wanted to be stabbed). Rape is a feminist issue because these are feminist problems. Men who are ostracized for their rapes are largely the victims of misogyny or homophobia. One is simply not a vein I’ve discussed, but on male victims of misogyny: This is a legitimate problem, but one that will only be muddled by bringing those victims to the forefront of the movement. Misogyny is the hatred of women; yes, it can affect men, but it cannot be dealt with by examining how society treats MEN. As mentioned in my original post, I do not think male victims should be overlooked, that they should be denied treatment or justice, but when making a movement for social change, you have to present a solidified front. In a movement to end misogyny, we have to fight the stereotypes laid against women, so those stereotypes can stop affecting EVERYONE.
The homemakers comment is a representation of sexism, not a sexist attack. The assumption that women are at home is based in the cultural belief that we SHOULD BE. Something still being the default doesn’t mean it isn’t a representation of prejudice, it means we haven’t done enough to break down those prejudices. In a truly equal society, no one would assume that things such as this would have any greater likelihood to apply to a person of one sex over another. But we don’t have equality; we have a world where women are believed to be the nurturers, and men the breadwinners.
http://www.derailingfordummies.com/#true
July 24, 2011 at 11:48 am
Exposing Feminism
Bunnika,
Are you absolutely sure that RAINN is not a feminist organisation?
Similarly, can you be sure that your statistics are “impartial”?
My statement that “feminists are stupid, throw logic at them” was actually a parody of a feminist statement. Do you still disagree with the sentiment expressed in that statement?
You might have not have expressly stated that you consider advocacy for men’s rights to be “tacit support” of rape, but a writer from the site that you reccommend does. Where do you actually stand on this?
E.F.
Ps, a statement that something is “true” is not “derailing” if that truth is pertinent to the argument – however I am glad that you are taking my message about exploring logical fallacies to heart.
February 3, 2012 at 8:22 am
WooWoo
Ah derailing the go-to phrase when you say something that refutes a point made by an ideological extremist of any sort (though I have pretty much only seen it used by feminists, with a few exceptions).
Bunicula, the only difference between yourself and this wonderful person is that she is being honest:
http://rageagainstthemanchine.com/2009/07/05/why-i-hate-men-part-1-and-then-it-hit-me/